WARREN GOES WAY BACK

 

In March 1992, I approached the Capitol/Parlophone press office about the possibility of interviewing Warren Cuccurullo (WC) for T’Mershi Duween. On Friday 21 January 1994, at 7pm, he phoned me. What follows is a pretty accurate transcript of our conversation.

 

IB: How did you get interested in Zappa and, ultimately, come to play with him?

 

WC: A friend of mine had a copy of ‘Hot Rats’. At the time I was into Deep Purple and Black Sabbath, but I really liked ‘Willie The Pimp’; it had a great guitar sound and a great riff. Then, when I was about 13, I saw him on The Dick Cavett Show with the Turtles playing, I think, ‘Who Are The Brain Police?’ with an extended guitar solo. I had started playing the guitar when I was 10 - you know, copying Grand Funk - and hearing this solo and seeing his fingers move, it got me. Then I heard the ‘Fillmore East’ album, which again had great guitar, plus some funny stuff like ‘Do You Like My New Car?’. By the time of ‘Over-nite Sensation’, I was completely into it. I thought, "This is it!” So I went to see him play at Brooklyn College, and I couldn’t imagine anything else like it in rock; the way he used Ruth, George, Chester, Tom, it was everything I ever wanted. Then I saw them again at the Forum in 74 and I started taping the shows. By l975 I was going to 14 shows per tour on the East Coast. I followed the band with Terry, Patrick and Eddie in 76, and I became friendly with Davey Moire - who is now my soundman; we’re both from Brooklyn - just before the Halloween shows. One night I was watching over his cases and he came back and said something about, ‘well, you know how Frank is.’ And I said, “No, I don’t. I’ve never met him.” And Davey was really surprised and said “Tomorrow night, come backstage.’ So I took my girlfriend, Chrissie.

 

IB: Any connection with the one in ‘Titties & Beer’?

 

WC: A lot of people ask that. I don’t know. But there are lots of connections to me in ‘Joe’s Garage’. Anyway, I met Frank and he said come up to the sound check and I kind of followed him around. I watched him on some other chat show, and afterwards he told me he was putting another band together - the one with the horn section used on the ‘In New York’ album. That’s when our friendship really started to develop. He said he liked my guitar playing, but all his other guitarists were singers, so I never thought I’d be in his band. The turning point came when he took me and my friend out to dinner on my birthday. We were in this little place in New York and William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg were at the next table. Frank introduced us: “this is Malcolm, he’s a taxi driver. And this is Warren; he’s a guitar player...” And I thought "Fuuck!”. Two weeks later he asked me to play on his European tour.

 

IB: Before you played guitar with him, you told the story of Ms X at a New York show in 78 - is that a true story?

 

WC: Yes. I told him it in Florida and he recorded it. He laughed all the way through. As the shows progressed, he said “I really want you to do it with us”. I changed the name for the show. I think he was testing me to see if I could handle it. And I handled it! Later on, in a dressing room, we picked up a couple of guitars and he showed me a riff, I played it and we carried on like that for about 20 minutes. A friend taped this, and when Frank heard it he went “Wow! Do you know this song?” And we continued to jam.

 

IB: Could you tell me about Al Malkin and The Mongoloid?

 

WC:  Al’s a friend — he’s also known as Meatball. We used to miss school together, listen to Frank, and smoke pot. Frank offered to tape his life story. He was like the Wild Man Fischer of the 80s.

 

IB: Do you know what happened to the planned ‘I Need Your Love’ album featuring those tapes of you and Al?

 

WC: Frank was editing those before his death. I’ve got another one here called ‘The Pus Tape’. It’s recorded live with Vinnie and Bruce; really weird stuff. Also there’s lots of stuff on video.

 

IB: There’s a clip of you in ‘The True Story of 200 Motels’ video with Ike Willis — I think it was recorded during the making of ‘Joe’s Garage’.

 

WC: Did I look like a punk?

 

IB: Yeah.

 

WC: That would be from that time, then.

 

IB: One obvious question I’ve got to ask you is why you were called “Sophia”?

 

WC: That was because I was always wearing women’s clothing.

 

IB: I thought it was after Sophia Loren - Sophia War-ren.

 

WC: And she’s Italian, too! We both came up with the name. I used to wear glass earrings, tiger coats, big boots, it was my first time in the UK and I went to Kensington Market. I was buying, like, jackets for 50p and I came out wearing everything I bought. I used to go to rehearsals at the Rainbow like that.

 

IB: Are there any other good studio jams like ‘While You Were Out’ and ‘Stucco Homes’ not yet released? How did those songs come about?

 

WC: That was originally one piece, but Frank edited it because it had different tonalities. It came about before his studio was built. I was playing along to a live solo of Frank’s and he took my track and flew it over a live Vinnie drum track. Then Frank recorded over the top of that with his Black Widow. It was unbelievable. He did it in one take! I was there all night watching him put it together, and afterwards he gave me the guitar I’d used - as payment. I used that for the next two years with Missing Persons.

 

IB: Frank did a stint as a DJ on WPIX-FM in November 1979 - have you any idea why he dedicated ‘The Deathless Horsie’ to “the Cuccurullo family”?

 

WC: Just friendship. I remember one time he came to Canarsie and played in my basement. This was where we used to worship him and suddenly he was there — my friends were just crying. We played ‘Watermelon In Easter Hay’ which, since his death, Duran have been playing; I taught the guys it. We’ll probably do it at Wembley next week.

 

IB: I understand you’re doing an album of cover versions — is there any chance that it’ll include that?

 

WC: We could do ‘Easter Hay’ as a bonus track — I’ve talked to Gail about it. Either that, or I’d love to do ‘Willie The Pimp’. We’ve already done a great version of Iggy Pop’s ‘Success’ with Mark and Howard, and Terry - there’s going to be some great drummers on it: Tony Thompson. Steve Ferrone...

 

IB: I assume you were responsible for getting Vinnie to play on the last album?

 

WC: Yes.

 

IB: Which Zeppelin song will be on the new one?

 

WC: ‘Thank You’ - again with Terry.

 

IB: Have you heard Tori Amos’ version of that?

 

WC: I love Tori, she’s a real inspiration to me at the moment.

 

IB: Have you got any good stories about John Smothers you can tell me?

 

WC: There’s loads. The funniest one I remember was when we were at the Hyde Park Hotel with Donovan and his wife and kids. He got some pot out and the kids started helping themselves. Smothers eyes just went really wide because Frank was about to arrive at any minute. So he went and got Gail and ended up throwing them all out of the door saying, "we don’t like that kinda stuff”. I remember I was playing Donovan’s acoustic guitar with the in-laid stars and planets.

 

IB: The last I heard of John was that he was ill. Do you know how he is?

 

WC: We played Washington recently, but I couldn’t track him down. I don’t know what’s happened to him.

 

IB: I’ve got a couple of questions from a friend here. Did Dale Bozzio ever perform live with Frank?

 

WC:  No.

 

IB: The band played Blondie’s ‘Heart Of Glass’ during rehearsals in early 1980 — was it ever performed in your time?

 

WC: No, but I played the Blondie album to death while on the road with Frank.

 

IB: Okay. Why did you leave the band?

 

WC: It was the hardest decision of my life. But there were always so many band changes and it got so I wanted a more permanent situation. I had been hanging out with Terry and Dale and we’d made about 10 songs together. We thought we had something special and Frank liked it. Then he called up to say he was gearing up for the road again, and I said I think we’re gonna do this band thing. He wished us all the luck in the world. So, with his blessings, we did it.

 

IB: Did you keep in touch with him up until the time of his death?

 

WC: Yes.

 

IB: The BBC made a documentary last year, which shows Bozzio at UMRK with The Chieftains and those throat singers — it didn't look like Frank was participating in that session other than directing things.

 

WC: No. I think he played with Shankar and those people.

 

IB: Have you ever been paid for ‘Beat The Boots’?

 

WC: The what?

 

IB: The official bootleg box-sets; they’ve been a bone of contention with some former band members who haven’t been paid any royalties.

 

WC: No. I’m not concerned by any of that.

 

IB: When I saw Terry a couple of years ago he said he’d work with you and Patrick again anytime, any day: “Perhaps we’ll form another band in the future - who knows?” Do you?

 

WC: We definitely are going to work together again. In fact, I spoke to him for about two hours this morning - they’ve just had that earthquake out there. I’m going to do something alongside my Duran Duran career. There’s so little time - Frank proved that: you’ve got to get stuff out there, make statements. When Terry, Patrick and I get together, there’s a kind of magic. And with all we know now, it’ll be something else.

 

IB: Steve Vai thanks you on the sleeve of ‘Flex-Able’ - have you two ever actually worked together?

 

WC: No. He’s a friend, though.

 

IB: I read that he recently phoned to compliment you on your work on ‘The Wedding Album’.

 

WC: Yes, he loved it. He’s a great guy.

 

IB: What led to your joining Duran Duran?

 

WC: Well Missing Persons were on the same label, and Bozzio and Patrick got to play on some of Andy Taylor’s stuff. It was the first time in a while that I had nothing to do so, being a Brooklyn boy, I decided to go for the jugular and I called up the rest of the band. I liked the Arcadia and Power Station outings - stuff like ‘Election Day’ - and I liked the arrangement on ‘Wild Boys’; I just thought it would be great. And I was right. Like them, I was very Bowie influenced.

 

IB:    Have you persuaded the rest of the band to perform naked yet?

 

WC:  No, not yet — but what can you do? Actually, I’m wearing even more on stage these days. Times change.

 

IB: In 1988, at the time of the ‘Broadway The Hard Way’ tour, Frank said Thomas Nordegg was unavailable because he was working for you - what was he doing?

 

WC: He was my guitar technician. Still is. We’ve been together since about 1980. He still videos a lot of things.

 

IB: In a 1990 interview you described yourself as a mini-FZ, in the light of your experiences with Missing Persons and Duran Duran. How come?

 

WC: I’m becoming a maxi-Frank now! His influence is so strong - I find my capacity for work is endless. I’ve just organised a 15-piece orchestra for a Duran Duran Unplugged show. My experience with Frank is my most valuable asset.

 

IB: In the same interview you said you had enough material put by for 5 solo albums, but were committed to Duran for the time being. Is that still the case?

 

WC: I probably have enough material for about 9 albums now! I’m gonna combine careers. I’ll be doing this thing with Terry and Patrick….and a mystery vocalist - someone like Julian Lennon. It could be Ahmet

 

IB: Have you played with Ahmet or Dweezil?

 

WC: I’ve just played on Dweezil’s guitar opus, ‘What The Hell Was I Thinking?’ Ahmet and Dweezil are amazing; together they almost equal Frank! No one will ever be quite like him, but they have his musical genius, his humour, and they can really play his stuff.

 

IB: In 1991, you were listed as a Guest Artist in the programme for the Zappa’s Universe concerts in New York - what happened?

 

WC: Oh, a problem with transport. It was so unorganised. I would’ve liked to - I was gonna play ‘Crew Slut’ or ‘five-five-FIVE’.

 

IB: I understand you judged the Muffin Men as best Zappa soundalikes in a Cover Contest in Holland a couple of years back?

 

WC: I don’t remember that.

 

IB: They’re a band from Liverpool who play Frank’s music - they’ve got a really good CD just out and are about to tour Europe with Ike Willis.

 

WC:  I haven’t seen Ike for ages.

 

IB: He made a great solo album, ‘I Should’a Gone Before I Left’.

 

WC: I’ve wondered what he’s been doing. Mark and Howard were talking to me about doing an album of all Frank’s songs that should’ve been hits - try and get Terry involved, maybe George. I would really like to make one of his songs a big hit.

 

IB: Mark and Howard remained friendly on and off with Frank over the years, didn’t they? At one time they were gonna be on the ‘Broadway’ tour.

 

WC:  So was I - Frank invited me to join him.

 

IB: What do you think of Keneally?

 

WC: I understand he’s got a good solo album out, but I haven’t heard it. Dweezil loves Keneally - he raves about him all the time.

 

IB: I believe you have your own fan club in the US.

 

WC:  Yeah. It’s sort of a Duran spin-off, but it covers my work with Frank and Missing Persons.

 

IB: OK, final question: have you ever tried oral sex with a miniature-rubberized homo-replica?

 

WC: Sort of. I can say that. But it wasn’t until this year. And it wasn’t miniature.

 

 

 

***

 

 

A fredited version of this interview originally appeared in Issue 36 of T’Mershi Duween. Photo of Warren liberated from the Stanley Hope Collection.

 

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