“HE’S CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW OF…A LUNCHTIME?!”

All it took was a casual remark by T’Mershi Duween editor, Fred Tomsett, a couple of phone calls, and four days later I’m sitting in the Queen Elizabeth Hall on London’s South Bank watching Kent Nagano rehearse the London Sinfonietta, a tape machine in my hand. Kent was taking the relaxed 9-piece ensemble through Boulez’s ‘Mémoriale’ in readiness for a concert that evening commemorating Japanese composer Toru Takemitsu’s 60^th birthday. The rehearsals over, I am ushered into the ‘Green Room’ to chat with the man about his stick wiggling exploits for FZ.

IB: Firstly, I’d like to ask you how you met and became involved with Frank Zappa.

KN: I was visiting IRCAM in Paris – some of my friends worked there under the patronage of Pierre Boulez – and I saw the list of the various pieces that were to be performed in the future. Included on that list were some pieces by Frank Zappa. Now, being a Californian, and Frank Zappa comes from California too…

IB: You’re actually based out in America, are you?

KN: I live in San Francisco. Of course, for us Frank Zappa is someone that everyone knows – regardless of whether you’re involved in popular music or not, everyone knows Frank Zappa – he’s one of the most well known people over there. I was really surprised, and I said, “Why are you doing Frank Zappa’s music?” and my friend said, “Well, it seems he’s written a number of serious compositions and he wanted the Ensemble to perform it, and Pierre Boulez has agreed to conduct it.” So the next time Frank Zappa toured through the Bay area – the San Francisco area – I contacted his manager.

IB: Bennett Glotzer?

KN: Yes, and asked him to request that he send me some scores. Then I got a message that Frank Zappa wanted to meet me during the intermission of one of his concerts.

IB: Was that about 1981 or 82?

KN: Yes, somewhere around then. And it was the first time in my life that I’d been to a rock concert. It was a phenomenal experience; it was packed, completely sold out, millions of fans, everyone just incredibly excited and enthusiastic. I remember meeting Frank Zappa and his entourage, and meeting his bodyguard.

IB: John Smothers?

KN: Yes, who scared the hell out of me! Anyway, he showed me these scores - which he allowed me to keep - and they were indeed extraordinary. Extraordinary quality, very surprising that anybody could write something so original, much less someone who wasn’t known in the classical music field. So I asked Frank if I could perform some of the pieces in California because they looked really interesting. So that was fine. And then I received a telephone call out of the blue many months later – because I never heard anything form Frank for a long time; he’d said he wanted to think about it because he had had a few performances of his music done recently that were so poorly prepared he was really choosing much more carefully the groups that he would allow to perform his music. He didn’t want his music to be massacred, which is very easy to do; it’s such difficult music.

IB: This is something that has come up in interviews throughout his career; that he’s unhappy with the performances.

KN: He’s absolutely right. People don’t treat them seriously, and if its not treated seriously it doesn’t give an accurate reading of what the piece is. So he was considering whether or not he would let me perform the music with my orchestra for several months. I never got a positive or a negative answer from him. But what I did receive about 4 months later was a telephone call asking if I’d be interested in recording a couple of albums of his music with the London Symphony.

IB: Had you worked with them before?

KN: No, in fact I had never really worked with any, what I would call, strong world-class orchestra before.

IB: Just the Berkeley Symphony Orchestra?

KN: Yes, they were a small Symphony…they were not really a full big-time orchestra. Now they are, but at the time they weren’t full time. So, of course, I was delighted. It was much more than ‘would I be interested’; I considered it a privilege, a real honour to be able to work with someone like Frank. We did some initial rehearsals together at his home in Los Angeles, and there I realised that it was indeed going to be an extremely exciting project. From my knowledge of his music and his incredible musicianship, I knew that for him it was just as important to have music performed as close to perfection as possible as it was for me. That’s one reason why I got my reputation - both negatively and positively - because I rehearse until its really very, very accurate.

IB: I think he was unhappy with the amount of time the LSO rehearsed – he quoted 38 days, which to me sounds a phenomenal time.

KN: It was a phenomenal amount of time for the London Symphony, but in all fairness, the writing is extremely difficult – its very, very difficult – and that was such a gruelling and intense period. I think its fair to say that the London Symphony, when they heard they were doing Frank Zappa’s music, had no idea what that really meant in terms of the complexity. But I will say that they were really quite phenomenal; they worked so hard and I really fell in love with the orchestra, just as a group.

IB: As they did with you – didn’t they hang a sign on your podium?

KN: Yes! (laughs) They hung a sign on my podium, which they had torn off of one of the electrical transformers, which said “DANGER – LIVE CONDUCTOR”. I still have that plaque. But they really gave 100%, and they appreciated Frank’s music; at the end they gave him an ovation that was for Frank and for his music. It was wonderful.

IB: At the time, I think Frank was quite happy too, but subsequently he’s made a few comments about their performance at the Barbican. There’s a huge bar at the back, and he was unhappy with the second half of the show – he thought they had been drinking too much.

KN: Um…well, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of any of that.

IB: Also, on the last recording session, the trumpet section was late back, necessitating 50 edits in 6½ minutes of music. I certainly could not pick up any errors from what I’ve heard on the recording on ‘Volume 2’.

KN: Well, that’s because Frank is such a superb editor. In fact, I’ve even entertained thoughts of doing a classical record with him in the recording truck, because he’s an incredible, incredible musician.

IB: Do you actually compose yourself?

KN: I have written, but I’m not an active composer. I’ve studied composition. But in all fairness to the orchestra, the music is humanly very, very difficult, and when you’re doing two - sometimes three - sessions a day, it’s pretty hard to keep your chops going.

IB: Do you know if there were any pieces recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra that have yet to be released?

KN: By Frank?

IB: By Frank, yes.

KN: I think we have some parts of some pieces. The idea was to get as many pieces as we possibly could as close to perfection as we could, to see if we might be able to get something like that.

IB: I think there are seven pieces that have been released now. Its all going to come out on CD soon, that’s his next hope – to remix it…

KN: Well, for me, its phenomenal music. I just did a re-performance of some of his pieces in Lyon.

IB: I’ve been sent a review of that, but its in French and I can’t translate it. Somebody who did said that you were the Musical Director of the Orchestra de Lyon.

KN: Yes, I am indeed.

IB: I assumed that perhaps you lived there, but you say not. You’re based in San Francisco.

KN: I divide my time between Lyon and San Francisco.

IB: That was with a ballet performance as well?

KN: That’s right.

IB: Did you actually record ‘Sinister Footwear’? I heard that was due to be recorded, and the Ballet was going to tour with the tape.

KN: That’s what we wanted to do. When I requested a number of rehearsals, that wasn’t so much of a problem – that’s why I felt so enthusiastic that we could finally get it because there, since I’m Musical Director, I can book as many rehearsals as I feel necessary. The problem came with the fact that there were a number of instruments that we didn’t normally carry in the orchestra – like bass flute, alto flute, contrabass clarinet, things like that – and the enormous expense of hiring all the extras, we would have had to hire something like 35 extras, and that’s when it became fiscally impossible.

IB: So you didn’t do any recordings of the performances?

KN: Unfortunately, we didn’t. I was really sad about that actually, because ‘Sinister Footwear’ for me is…that’s a great piece.

IB: The only orchestral works I know really are Zappa’s, and those by people that have inspired him – like Webern and Varèse. That I find is one of the more accessible pieces.

KN: ‘Sinister Footwear’ to me is one of the best pieces that he’s written and it doesn’t exist in a recording.

IB: I’ve heard a tape of it from the June 1984 performance at the Zellerbach Auditorium…

KN: That was us, yeah…

IB: …with the marionettes!

KN: And that gives a loose idea, but its not…it really needs a studio recording.

IB: There are also some ‘rock band’ versions of that, or extracts from it.

KN: Yeah, but it should be done with an orchestra

IB: Is it within your power to commission a piece by Zappa so that he can write for the instruments that are readily available to you?

KN: Yeah, it is possible. At this point Frank doesn’t seem to be interested in writing for human orchestras.

IB: He’s playing with the Synclavier down in the basement.

KN: And he’s been frustrated in a sense; the way that his mind works its such a sophisticated, complex mind that his impatience when people can’t go at the same pace gets him down sometimes. I think he has been frustrated that musicians just don’t…yeah, we don’t care enough really, we don’t care to the point where we will practice until its perfect. I mean most of us don’t. For me, it makes a big difference, but the real constraints of the economic realities of a symphony orchestra do place economic limits on how much time you can place….

IB: Have you seen The Real Frank Zappa Book?

KN: No. Well, yes - I’ve seen the book. But I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.

IB: It goes into great detail about the complexities of organising a performance of one of his pieces and the phenomenal cost of it all.

KN: Phenomenal cost. And you know, Frank, when he does his rock music, its no less complicated. But they rehearse until its perfect, and then they go out on the road. Which means if it takes 2 months of rehearsal, its 2 months of rehearsal. In the symphonic world, the financial realities just don’t make that possible right now. And its frustrating for someone who’s written music that he knows is totally playable, given enough rehearsal time…I totally understand his point…he’s right, in fact.

IB: He’s been writing orchestral pieces for a long time, but it seems the rock world is where he finances it. I think in the future we’ll see him going off into more orchestral works and hiding away with the Synclavier. He’s always talking about giving up touring – he’s said that many times. Have you any idea what his plans are? Has he any collaborations lined up with you in the future?

KN: No, not for the moment.

IB: But you do hope to get together again sometime?

KN: Well, every time I’m in Los Angeles, I go and visit the Zappa family. I have enormous, enormous respect for Frank. For several reasons: one, because he’s a great composer; and, two, because he gave me my first chance. People don’t realise that he recognised…he made telephone calls, and he did investigations of what my reputation was – but someone has to give a young conductor their first chance. And Frank gave me my first chance, and I’ll always be grateful to Frank for that.

IB: He pays tribute to you as well; he thinks you are a world-class conductor, and he thinks you can do things that conductors who have been working for 50 years can’t do.

KN: Really? I didn’t realise that.

IB: Thinks you’re “fantastic”, he says.

KN: When you stop and think about it, someone in his position could have hired anybody that he wanted, and the fact that he gave me a chance; I never ever will forget that. Because I have a career now. Had to start some place.

IB: So the LSO was really the big break for you?

KN: Well, it was one of the breaks. It certainly was the first time that I got to work with a superior orchestra.

IB: Do you know how Boulez feels about Zappa’s music? I get the impression from what I’ve seen that he doesn’t take it altogether seriously – possibly because of Zappa’s ‘rock’ background.

KN: I don’t have that impression. I find that he finds it fascinating

IB: I know they seem to be friendly – they did an interview together last year some time…

KN: I think that he is fascinated by his music.

IB: Okay. Thanks very much. That’s great.

KN: You’re welcome.

***

A fredited version of this interview originally appeared in Issue 16 of T’Mershi Duween. Photo of Kent in the Green Room taken by the Idiot Bastard.

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