TELL ME
With an appearance at Zappanale in August and, before that, a tour with Allan Holdsworth and Alan Pasqua
(including a date/master class at
IB: How did you get to audition for
Frank?
CW:
I heard about Frank auditioning drummers in 1981. The rest of this story is on
my website [at http://www.chadwackerman.com/faqs.html]...here
it is: I first thought that it would be pointless, that I wouldn’t get the gig.
It wasn’t until I spoke with Jim Cox who said I had to go and audition, because
I’d get a funny story out of it. I thought it over and realized that I had
nothing to lose. I called Frank and spoke to him, telling him that I was a
drummer who lived in LA and was interested in auditioning for the band. He said
“Do you read?” I told him I did, and then he said, “Are you a good reader or
are you a phenomenal reader?” Not knowing quite what to say, I told him I had
experience in percussion ensemble music, big band, session work, etc. but I
hadn’t seen his notation, although the reputation of his music was that it was
complicated stuff. He gave me his address and asked if I could be there in an
hour. I packed up my drums and drove up to Frank’s house. I was let in the gate
and the first person I saw and met was Steve Vai.
Steve introduced me to the other core members of that tour - Ed Mann and Tommy
Mars. I heard a couple of quick drum auditions, and then it was my turn. The
pieces he auditioned on were Alien
Orifice, Drowning Witch (the
classical interlude part), Mo ‘N Herb’s
Vacation (which is arguably the most difficult drum part of his
compositions). After somehow getting through the music, the next stage of the
audition was playing in odd time signatures. We played in 21/16 and 19/8. The
other guys in the band were extremely solid on this stuff, and we played these
grooves for a long period of time. Frank then had me play in just about every
style imaginable; heavy metal, swing, funk, New Orleans style rock (he called
it a Delta groove), a Weather Report-type feel, Latin styles, swing reggae,
straight reggae, ska, punk…then it was combining an
odd time and a ska feel or a reggae feel…after this,
Frank put on his guitar and played various rock feels, solos, riffs and we
began to improvise off of certain feels. This ended day one of my audition.
Frank had me return for the next two days for more playing - I got to take home
some of the music and we basically just did lots and lots of playing. At the
end of the third day, I went home and got a call that night from Frank saying
that he just had a meeting with the band, and they had decided to offer me the
gig. This meant three months of rehearsal, five to six days a week, eight hours
a day. Frank had about 80 songs that we were to memorise, and arrangements changed regularly. The
tour was three months in the
IB:
What were you doing prior to that - playing with the Bill Watrous
band?
CW:
Yes, Bill’s Refuge West big band, small group and touring with singer Leslie Uggams.
IB:
What sort of music was that?
CW:
Bill Watrous is a famous jazz trombone player. He has
a beautiful French horn type of sound and ridiculous facility. I played in his
big band which, at that time, played originals and some arrangements of Chick Corea tunes. Leslie Uggams is a
singer and a Tony award winning Broadway actress. She toured with a rhythm
section and picked up the rest of the big band in each city. This was my first
road gig.
IB:
Describe the experience of that first tour with Frank.
CW:
My first tour with Frank was especially exciting. I remember that our fist show
was at a University in
IB:
What did Frank ask of you when recording the new drum parts for We’re Only In It For The
Money and Cruising With Ruben &
The Jets? Did you work with Arthur, or separately?
CW:
Separately. Also, on Ruben & The Jets, Jay Anderson overdubbed acoustic bass after I
had done the drum tracks.
IB:
As well as Money and Ruben, you were also called in to
overdub tracks on the Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt and YCDTOSA albums; did Frank have a programme
of work for you or did he just randomly call you in?
CW:
Those overdub sessions were all done in one period. Frank told me he had always
dreamed of redoing the drums on those records, to get a modern, more hi-fi drum
sound. At first I felt like we should not be messing with these classic
recordings, but then I realised that: (i) the originals still exist. The engineers transferred the
original master tapes to a new Digital tape, so the masters are intact; (ii) if
I passed on doing the recording, I would
disappoint Frank and he’d hire another drummer to do it; (iii) Frank was the
composer and producer on those recordings and it was what he wanted to do.
IB:
Anything still unreleased?
CW:
I haven’t yet heard the version of Mo ‘N
Herb’s Vacation that I recorded in the studio. I had overdubbed to a
recording of a small wind ensemble that David Ocker
put together for Frank. The recording is a very tight version of Mo ‘N Herb’s. This was done before the
LSO recording.
IB:
Did you ever play Mo’s Vacation - the rock band version of Mo 'N Herb’s Vacation?
CW:
I am on the LSO recording, and no we never performed it live with the rock
band. I did a studio recording for Frank.
IB:
Do you regret the electronic drums on the ’84 tour?
CW:
No, not at all. It was Frank’s idea to use them at the time. We experimented,
and came up with a hybrid kit of a DW kick and snare, real Paiste
cymbals, and 11 electronic pads. The unit at the time was a modified Simmons
SDS7. I had four digital samples on chips per pad, plus a basic analogue synth section per pad, and 16 setups programmed for the
show. I did enjoy the melodic possibilities when I would solo. I still enjoy
playing melodically on the drum kit, but now I do it all on an acoustic set.
IB:
What was working on young Dweezil’s first album like?
CW:
It was fun. Dweezil played great, and he was young
too, maybe 18 I’m guessing. Steve Vai
was his teacher and Scott Thunes helped him arrange
his tunes, so they had it all planned out arrangement wise before I even heard
the music. A good time was had.
IB:
How did you hook up with Allan Holdsworth?
CW:
In 1982, through my old friend and drummer buddy John Ferraro. John played in a
band with Ernie Balls sons,
IB:
You originally made a guest appearance with the Band From
Utopia, then subsequently played on the whole Banned album…any more plans to
record/tour/work with any of those guys?
CW:
The Fowler Brothers got a call from a festival in
IB:
So, do you think you'll work with BFU or the Fowlers again?
CW:
I sure hope so. They are such wonderful players. Bruce and Walt are very busy
orchestrating music for film, so BFU has been put on hold.
IB:
Tell me about your work with Ed Mann on his solo CDs.
CW:
Ed and I connected from the first tour that I did with Frank. Ed is also a
drummer and I found his influences very interesting - he was into all sorts of
ethnic music, and various urban dance styles. Ed got a record deal with the
German art label, CMP Records. I played on two of Ed’s CD’s, Get Up and Perfect World.
IB:
Would you say you were influenced by Ed's writing or the recordings you did
with him?
CW:
I really like Ed's compositions and really enjoyed playing on his solo CDs, but
I wouldn't say that I was trying to copy his writing style. I think the
similarity is a sonic one because Daryl Pratt plays vibraphone on Scream and Legs Eleven.
IB:
CMP also released some of your solo albums - do you have any deal/plans for
more solo records?
CW:
I have four solo project CDs: Forty
Reasons; The View; Scream; and Legs Eleven. I've recorded a live performance of my band in
IB:
And what about the Bozzio duo tours – obviously
Terry’s a good friend; any more plans to work together?
CW:
We are looking at possibilities now, but nothing is confirmed.
IB:
What was working with Barbra Streisand like - did that effect your playing at all?
CW:
It was actually really fun. She was very serious about the gig. We rehearsed in
a recording studio in LA. It was also a
small eight piece band, so it was nice to work in that environment. More connection than with a large orchestra. It was one live
show, which was made into an HBO special, Video/DVD, and CD. We rehearsed for a
week and played one gig, so I can't say that it affected my playing, It was at a very professional level and she sounded amazing.
IB:
What was the move to
CW:
My wife is Australian, and when we had our first child we were looking at
options - living outside of
IB:
What was it like getting back together with Keneally
for guest appearances recently?
CW:
How do you know this? It was great. I did two gigs with Mike. One with his band
at the Baked Potato club in LA, and one gig in
IB:
Your brothers, John and Brooks, are also drummers – all taught by you father?
CW:
My father started us, but after a while we all took lessons from Murray Spivack and Chuck Flores.
IB:
CW:
In fact,
IB:
During your master class at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, I asked you about your
opportunities and interest in non-Western music. You told us about odd time
signatures and made it sound very easy – ‘Think only in 2 and 3, etc’. Could
you run that by me again?
CW:
Any odd time signature has combinations of 2 and 3 counts – for example, if you
play in 5/8, then you can count it in 2/8 plus 3/8, or reverse it - 3/8 plus
2/8. The composition determines the 2 and 3 counts. The first counts (the 1s)
are accented and these accents define the groove. If you think in that way,
it's easy to understand: 2+3+2+3+3 would be called 13/8, but since you know
where the accents fall, you can make it groove. You can write a sticking patter
for a 2 count, then one for a 3 count and connect them together. Bass drum
plays the accents of all the downbeats. From there you can edit notes out,
experiment with half time, etc…it's endless. The goal is to make music out of
it, not to make it sound difficult.
IB:
You make it look easy, too. I read on one fan site that you guested on
the Zappa Plays Zappa tour towards
the end of last year, but not seen that mentioned anywhere else. Is that right
or wrong?
CW:
All rumours, I’m afraid. I think Terry might be a
guest artist on some shows. They got us mixed up. You can’t believe everything
you read on the net.
IB:
This is true. So what you gonna play for us at
CW:
We’ve been rehearsing for it with my new trio; Doug Lunn
and Mike Miller. So far we are playing my music and some of Mike’s. We have
been re-arranging tunes because my previous band was a quartet. It’s already
sounding amazing and we are thrilled to be a part of the festival.
IB:
After the Holdsworth tour and Zappanale, what does
the future hold?
CW:
This year is full of touring with the Allan Holdsworth
trio (with Jimmy Johnson on bass). The Pasua/Holdsworth/Haslip/Wackerman
group has put out a live DVD on Altitude Digital. It's in HD, surround sound and really captures some wonderful
performances of the band. I also need to finish up my live band CD from Sydney,
and the studio trio CD with Allan and Jimmy.
IB:
Finally, would you like to say anything about Kurt McGettrick?
CW:
I was shocked to hear the news that Kurt had passed away. I had such a great
time working with him. We got to stretch and improvise together quite a lot on
the BFU tour of the
IB:
Okay,
***
You know, it seems unlikely that this interview will
ever appear in a future edition of T’Mershi Duween, so I’m not sure why I even mentioned it. Photo of